More Power to Mapmakers
postimet: 460
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In light of Martell announcing that he is going to take down his RP map, it brings up another important issue, that of how much power a mapmaker should have.
Martell is taking down his map because his ban list is not being respected. The children who played his map would go to moderators because they think that their bans were "unfair" or "unjust" and the moderators would then step in and threaten Martell.
This is a disgusting abuse of moderator's powers. Moderators are here to enforce the AtWar basic rules so that AtWar can be a safe environment and free from spam and trolls. They are not here to regulate mapmakers. Mapmakers are the people who keep this game running, as without their maps, far less people would play AtWar. It is the hard work and creativity of the mapmakers that makes this game special. Moderators stepping in and regulating does not make the game any safer or better, it only causes mapmakers to close down their maps, feel bullied by "big government", and sometimes even flee from the game as the outcome of their hard work is not worth the effort.
Mapmakers should be able to ban people from their maps for whatever reason they want. If the mapmaker is truly abusing his power on banning people, the market will take its course, and the map will not be played as often as there are either too many bans or people do not think highly of the mapmaker. It is not like the maps made are the only ones available, all of them are easily substituted with another map of similar value. If you really think your ban was unjustified, go play another, similar map. The people bitching about being banned from Martell's map can easily go to Tempted's map. If they are banned from both, then my assumption would be that they truly deserved it.
Also, my map is my work and my property. Forcing me to allow people to use my map who I don't want is forcing me to work hard on creating these maps for certain people who I did not voluntarily agree to work for or suffer consequences, which is essentially slavery. You cannot force me to allow people to use my property.
Mapmakers, it's time to stand up for yourselves.
[EDITED BY CTHULHU]: Martell's thread has been deleted by Martell
Martell is taking down his map because his ban list is not being respected. The children who played his map would go to moderators because they think that their bans were "unfair" or "unjust" and the moderators would then step in and threaten Martell.
This is a disgusting abuse of moderator's powers. Moderators are here to enforce the AtWar basic rules so that AtWar can be a safe environment and free from spam and trolls. They are not here to regulate mapmakers. Mapmakers are the people who keep this game running, as without their maps, far less people would play AtWar. It is the hard work and creativity of the mapmakers that makes this game special. Moderators stepping in and regulating does not make the game any safer or better, it only causes mapmakers to close down their maps, feel bullied by "big government", and sometimes even flee from the game as the outcome of their hard work is not worth the effort.
Mapmakers should be able to ban people from their maps for whatever reason they want. If the mapmaker is truly abusing his power on banning people, the market will take its course, and the map will not be played as often as there are either too many bans or people do not think highly of the mapmaker. It is not like the maps made are the only ones available, all of them are easily substituted with another map of similar value. If you really think your ban was unjustified, go play another, similar map. The people bitching about being banned from Martell's map can easily go to Tempted's map. If they are banned from both, then my assumption would be that they truly deserved it.
Also, my map is my work and my property. Forcing me to allow people to use my map who I don't want is forcing me to work hard on creating these maps for certain people who I did not voluntarily agree to work for or suffer consequences, which is essentially slavery. You cannot force me to allow people to use my property.
Mapmakers, it's time to stand up for yourselves.
[EDITED BY CTHULHU]: Martell's thread has been deleted by Martell
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I personally think (if anyone cares, that is) it is about time that the AtWar rules be rewritten. According to the forum post timestamp, the current rules were written in the 30th of November, 2011. That's three years ago. This game has changed a lot. A new, well-thought out and complete set of rules and guidelines should stop issues like this from propping up too much, I think.
duke u karikuar...
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Rankist Sharck Llogaria u fshi |
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 your own ...no new rule, no new agreement can change retroactively what i payed for.
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Em... why is it that hard to provide a screenshot...? I still don't get it... If that guy is a moron, retarded troll, just provide a ss of his actions... Why do you wanna be able to ban just for the pleasure of banning?? I wouldn't be happy for getting banned just cause a "x" map maker thinks I'm dumb... If they trully have a reason and proves the bad consequences of my actions then I will understand their decision eventhough I'm not sure if being dumb is a legit enough reason to BAN a person from a map... I think ban is a greater responsability than you guys think it might be... Only imagining admins banning from the standard map whoever they don't like is scary.
---- Don't ever look down on someone unless you're helping him up. Don't ever treat someone else the way you wouldn't want others to treat you. We're all people. 
duke u karikuar...
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I'm not saying you want to do that... I'm just saying that if you guys don't want to do that, where's the problem with providing a ss? Btw, that comparison was just an exageration  don't take it too seriously. And what if they're your maps?? You guys defend you don't abuse the ban tool so... why are you guys being so agressive??
---- Don't ever look down on someone unless you're helping him up. Don't ever treat someone else the way you wouldn't want others to treat you. We're all people.
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xaxa got you desu
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Guys? Plural? XDD pls don't put me in any group, I'm not talking on behalf of anyone, I'm just talking for myself and because I do not understand where exactly is this issue...
Agree, I don't have any argument against anyone, basically cause I still don't understand this so called problem and I ain't "against" anyone.
As far as I've understood you just want absolute power upon maps you created. All I'm asking is where is the problem about providing proofs, which you guys have just answered by saying that you don't need to provide anything since you want full power, which doesn't really answer my question... All I'd like to know is why is it so much effort? That way all your bans would be acceptable to the eyes of everyone and none of this trouble would have started... I read Colummna's examples of "reasons" for banning and... #Lol. It's just a miserable ss.... not that much hard work  Giving total power scares me cause of the possible troll banning...
---- Don't ever look down on someone unless you're helping him up. Don't ever treat someone else the way you wouldn't want others to treat you. We're all people.
duke u karikuar...
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I got banned for no aparent reason (supposed early leaver) from Aethius maps and I talked things out with him. I had never joined one of his games before so it was really wierd for me to be banned from his maps. Luckily, I didn't have any trouble... but what if he hadn't unbanned me? I was a newbie, a no one, who would have listened to me? Sometimes talking doesn't solve things when it comes to stubborn people. I have the right to play this game and, meanwhile I don't harm or offend anyone, why would I be banned from anything? Makes no sense to me. Sure, you can ban me anyway but... is that legit? It's just asking for a lawsy ss.... nothing more I never stated liking trolls and such, but I must worry about myself first. However, if a guy is a troll, it shouldn't be that hard to find evidences that prove your word right? Just take the ss of his insults and state that as an evidence. Then ban him and make him shut up if he ever comes at you crying.
---- Don't ever look down on someone unless you're helping him up. Don't ever treat someone else the way you wouldn't want others to treat you. We're all people.
duke u karikuar...
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10/10 pro politician skills You literally just repeated "map makers are guilty until proven innocent" with nice words in order to make it look like your comment has value, when in reality it doesn't.
Why should i give you ss at all? Are you the owner of the map?  Oh yeah, you are not.
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Possession is not unlimited. For example, I can't (am legally not allowed to) torture animals I own, because animal protection laws. I can't build skyscrapers with my land and my money, because zoning laws. I hope the point is made: just because you own something doesn't mean you are entitled to exercise perfect control over it. The map/scenario you made is yours. Congratulations. It must still be used in a way that benefits the AtWar community as a whole.
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>null The ban is probably incomplete, most bans in my list are usually Null until i finish the game that was ruined. >Stinky I went and told EJR how shitty his map was, i am not interested in playing his maps so i don't care if he bans me or not. >You lack the skill to play my maps properly, sorry I use this definition for wfrs, people that don't wall at all, low ranks that pick a big country and RQ. >pre-emptive ban for being in X Some clans, specially the reich, love to ruin my maps because X leader in their clan is banned by legit reasons. >My finger slipped This depends who put it, if it was adog it was probably a way of saying "troll banned" >tried to ally germany as france So are you saying its totally ok for nazi germany to ally france in a 1939 map? Lol I am not going to write a paragraph every time i ban a undesirable person from my maps
Desu takes stance #1, while you never take a side but make it sound like we are in the wrong.
duke u karikuar...
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Maps are not living things, you are allowed to do anything to objects of your private property.
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Is it possible? Why would someone play a map instead of scenario? And if someone does, is it reason to ban?
Nah, just a good SS. Don't even have to write one single letter!
Never said you (WE) are wrong. All I'm saying (and always have been saying) is that map/scenario bans should be well grounded. Bans from hosted games are free! I never changed the banlist of a map-maker, always send map-makers a PM asking for review and talk to map-makers if there is some issue with bans... so don't come with this bullshit that I do not support OUR cause as map-makers. The fact that you are pro-free use of banlists and I urge map-makers to use them with care, respect and generosity is what makes the difference between us. You use it as a tool of power, I use it as a tool to enhance gaming experience. That's all!
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duke u karikuar...
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Rankist Sharck Llogaria u fshi |
Rankist Sharck Llogaria u fshi Well, you are supposed to prove that you are banning a rule breaker.
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Your arguments are based on the illusion that you are making your own stuff on your own property. Your maps are uploaded to atWar, which makes all of your rights nullified since you don't own atWar. Its just like if I am taking my phone to a friend's house. It's maybe my phone, but I can only use it, or even bring it, if I am allowed by the host, as it his property. And if I am allowed to, I will have to follow the rules set by the property owner on how I can use it, again since it is his property. In the same way, your map is hosted on atWar, which means that you will have to follow the rules set by the owners, Ivan and Amok. Now, if you want them to change the rules, that would be ok (even though it would still be a terrible idea), but you are acting like it is your right to ban everyone who isn't a cunt. So you will have to obey the rules set by the admins, or take your map and gtfo of atWar.
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duke u karikuar...
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 bahahaha i remember that xD evil desu was telling me to stop treating you and goblin like the crybabies you both are.He was wrong 
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Except there are no rules set by the admins on banlists. The only thing they set out for the banlists is its existence and its functions, they never set any rules on bans, so the mods are moderating rules which don't even fucking exist. If I pay to go to someone's house, I get to bring my phone unless they told me I cannot before I even payed. If they told me I can't bring my phone I would tell them to fuck off, not help them with their fuckign science project, and I would demand my money back. Similarly, I payed for AtWar. There are no rules set out for banlists, so I can do whatever the fuck I want with them. If you set a rule, I will protest it. I payed for this game, I expect control over what I fucking payed for. My rights are not fucking nullified when I upload to AtWar. Nobody's are. I never signed a contract saying my content belongs to the administrators, and until I do, my content belongs to me, and you can fuck off. You people are a bunch of self-entitled pricks who act as if I owe you shit. I don't owe you anything in the same way your dead grandmother doesn't owe you her fetish porn collection from her will. If you people want to pretend that my maps are public property, I'll hide them and then you can go see how much they are fucking public property. And I'm not the only one who would do this. It's like if you take a shit in the toilet, it is not public fucking property. You can keep it sitting in that toilet in your house for the next three years as your property, you can shove it right back up your widened asshole that you got from being the mod's bitch. It isn't until you flush that shit and voluntarily eject it that it is now public property. If I am not ejecting my shit, it is still fucking mine.
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duke u karikuar...
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In all seriousness, this. And to summarize, A.) As columna stated, i remember the posts that lead to the implementation of banlist, where the following things happened.Map makers were begging to be given a banlist feature.Part of the community and some mods expressed fear and discomfort trusting a feature which could easily be abused, to mapmakers.Mapmakers promised to be fair and explained in a dramatic atmosphere how badly this needed to be done, so the trolls and leavers that ruin their lifes and their scenarios, could be dealt with.The community then voiced its support.The mods took the community s support into consideration and decided to trust them and working with admins, implemented the banlist feature, shortly. Result : You/some of you (mapmakers) abused the fuck out of your newly acquired power creating a whole lot of unneeded drama that still takes place daily, broken your promises to remain just and fair in your bans and betrayed the mods and community s trust. B.) Abuse of power is abuse of power, no matter how much you try to sugar coat it,wether it is under supposed rights of ownership or other bullshit like that.I find it hypocritical how most of you, were crying constantly about mods abusing their power and being biased and not justifying their bans.But now that you are given a taste of power, you are too quick to abuse it yourself and not only that, but you want to be left alone, banning everyone you want without reason.Hypocrisy and double standards much? I will close my statement, adding a dramatic tone (/add sad violin song)saying that this is why i respect animals more than humans.Because as we already saw from the Stanford prison experiment, most people are/or eventually turn under the right circumstances to pieces of shit, ungratefull , greedy, liars that given even a shred of power they will rush to abuse it, no matter what.We are a shitty species.We are a mistake, we are parasites.We are a fucking virus.
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duke u karikuar...
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Abuse is minimal, very few people actually ban people they don't like. The ones who doo will be taken out by the market. I already explained this in an economic perspective. It is undesirable to ban too many people from your map. Moderator abuse and mapmaker "abuse" are two very different things. AtWar doesn't have arbitrary rules where the mod's can do whatever they want, Atwar has a set of rules that the mod's must follow. In this case, they are not following them. Map makers are not required to provide rules, and there are no rules sst by the devs on how we regulate our maps. You can call it abuse, but we are not breaking any rules, and if you really demand such, we can write in our games that you can be banned arbitrarily for any reason. Humans aren't parasitical viruses, self entitled pricks like the childish fucktards opposing more power to map makers are parasites. You are the ones who demand shit for doing nothing. You are the ones who lay claim to other people's property. So fuck you, and fuck your bullshit.
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duke u karikuar...
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I never claimed or demanded shit from you.I dont even play any of your maps. But ill be damned if i dont give you all the hard cold truth, which is that you are all hypocrits and liars and if i dont defend innocent people who cant enjoy the game because of reason "NULL" or "my hand slipped" (funny i admit) and other bullshit like this.When you were all begging for the banlist, you didnt have this bad boy attitude.And i know cause i was there, supporting all of you.I guess the people that said "no" then, were up to something.
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Nope ...another stupid comparisons and invalid argumments ...i payed for the tools, i created my own background for the map and i am creating my map, its mine, i also payed to be able to publish it on atWar. Im sorry ...did i forget to buy a DLC or something? Your argumments are false ...please do try again. Khalessis rant about poor people not able to enjoy atWar is rubbish ...people didnt pay me to enjoy the map i made ...discussions about justifiable bans or not are irrelevant, i can share the thing i made with who i please and if i dont want some asshole playing on my work my rights beat his.
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It's like everyone forgets this:
Pulse has already explained what would happen when people complain, it is already a rule. This post and thread was made DIRECTLY after the implementation of ban lists. I can even invoke the words of Tik-Tok:
Stop thinking that the moderators are out to get you. We aren't. We're just trying to make it fair for both the map maker and the common player.
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First of all... CHILL! For god sake, this is a fucking game.... why do you need to be so agressive?? Is someone pointing at you with a gun?? Chill already... In any case, you're wasting your time here. You should talk to admins about your issue, not with the community since it's something for your personal interest, not for the community's interest. It's nice that you guys get to ban trolls, assholes or whatever undesired cheater. But... wanting to ban just for arbitrary reasons.... just "because yes"... maybe you won't abuse this option but you can't talk for everyone else. That's too risky in my opinion. There always needs to be a superior rule that regulates everything else. You may point out whatever mechanism market has of working, but the fact is that nowadays' market is killing the world, so it's invalid.
If this is the case, then you don't need "more power", you just need a single ss... Is it that hard? If you really don't want to abuse it and use it for the better, is there any problem in having to provide a ss?? I guess that if you ban someone for being, for example, a rule breaker, then you must have seen him breaking a rule or been given a proof of his actions. Then just share what you saw / were given.
---- Don't ever look down on someone unless you're helping him up. Don't ever treat someone else the way you wouldn't want others to treat you. We're all people.
duke u karikuar...
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I want to know how much of a fucking public property my maps are, after i hide them and only I can host them 
Tell me, where in the rules of atwar says that i can't do whatever the fuck i want with my map. Oh yeah, there is none, gtfo. Edit: lel wrong id
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I will be aggressive in defending what is rightfully my property. You don't like it? Go fuck yourself. If someone was trying to take your property, you would be pretty pissed off as well. This is a community issue. Most mapmakers agree with me on this issue, I am not the only mapmaker who is arguing in favor of property rights. Most mapmakers won't give arbitrary bans. If you look at my banlists, ranging from my maps with 1 play to my maps with over 250 plays, you will not find a single person on any of the ban lists. And unless someone comes and trolls, that probably won't cange. So you can see, I am not here for selfish reasons, I am arguing for our rights. We should not need to provide an SS. If you don't want someone using your property, that is your choice.
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1. case to case investigations, appeals, evidence that troublemakers can deny, people who treat a map maker like shit and insult then bitch about, cry about on forums, mods forced to question the bans and appeals or 2. full authority for the guy who spent hours and hours working on a map, players thinking twice before being assholes because they would know appeals and crying to mods cant unban them ...only by respecting the map maker and his work can they enjoy the map. ...and why dont you all chill for a bit, because you are acting like being banned from a map is the end of the world when there are hundreds of maps here in AW ...and seriously if you got banned from all of them you just might actually be an asshole.
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duke u karikuar...
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But you don't know anything of the person being banned. The map maker does. A non-map maker sees the ban and will think that the map maker is being an asshole, but in reality the person that got banned probably wfd turn 1 quit and then told the map maker that he can't ban him. The map makers response will be like " haha i just did" or like in this example " my hand slipped". You are always welcome to play other maps or make your own.
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Checklist deciding if mapmakers 100% own their maps or not: Did they add the cities and capitals onto a handmade image of a map? Yes. Did they develop the tools that allowed the creation of their map? No. Do they help pay for the map to be hosted on the server? No. Did they help write the code that allows the map to be playable? No. You guys are responsible for 25% of adding another playable map onto at war. At war owns the rest of the 75%. gg no re.
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Fockmeeard is always right
---- It's not the end. 
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This was suggested AFTER map makers got what they want it, i never accepted pulses proposal, it wasn't made by an admin so is not official and its not in the atwar rules. Even if we assume its official, the proposal limits the appeal system to that forum section effectively making private proposals invalid, this can allow other map makers to help the fellow map maker gather evidence or to call him out for being silly and misrepresenting map makers. Even if private appeals weren't invalid, the proposal specifies "silly bans" So you can't challenge a non-silly ban. No connection was made between silly and screenshot, so you only need to provide screen if the thing is silly. Pulse didn't specify what is silly and what is not, map makers should decide what is silly and what is not. At any moment the proposal says that privileges will be taken away.
Again, tik-tok make it clear that is up to the map maker to decide if he follows the appeal or not.
Mods are making the system unfair to map makers, no map maker will follow a system in which they are guilty until proven innocent
The truth is, that you get so annoyed by reports of noobs and trolls that all you want is the reports to stop, you could careless if you are being fair or not. Map makers guilty until proven innocent and trolls innocent until proven guilty, is not a fucking fair system and you know it.
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